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Bastion

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VCO's Resident Transgirl!!
Posted Nov 12, 16 · OP
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Dicerson O>_
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Moving shoot isn't bad. Its useful for dueling most of his ranged counters (Like hanzo, widow, or pharah) because he can dodge while doing it. Semi-ing is good cuz you can headshot with it while dodging.

Most of bastion's dynamics come with the game itself, he is more about positioning, timing, and coordination than actual shooting prowess. People who don't play bastion don't know this, hence why people keep saying he is a simple character. When he is not at all.
What is my life?

I could say alot.

I could write a novel,

or a paragraph.

But instead, I'd much rather write one sentence and leave it at that.


Life is good.
Posted Nov 13, 16
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I was going to say that since dice mains bastion, this sums up Dice as bastion in almost a nutshell.
NC for life. NC 4ever.
Posted Nov 14, 16
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Moving shoot isn't bad. Its useful for dueling most of his ranged counters (Like hanzo, widow, or pharah) because he can dodge while doing it. Semi-ing is good cuz you can headshot with it while dodging.

Most of bastion's dynamics come with the game itself, he is more about positioning, timing, and coordination than actual shooting prowess. People who don't play bastion don't know this, hence why people keep saying he is a simple character. When he is not at all.

But, he is simple possibly the most simple character in the whole game, I really don't see why this is an issue I get it you want your "main" to sound better than he is but he has literally the most counters in the whole game, its just a shame he can't be better really.
VCO's Resident Transgirl!!
Posted Nov 14, 16 · OP
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True. He has very few difficult concepts about him but here are way too many counters:
  • Genji is a hard counter if you do it right.
  • Tracer is good if you sneak by it.
  • Widowmaker can literally out range Bastion.
  • Hanzo can just Ult him to death.
  • Roadhog just has to land his hook on Bastion (If it doesn't somehow hook the McCream that is directly behind you).
  • Sombra's hack takes him out of turret form.
  • Mei can just ice wall him off. Reaper will shred him if he sneak behind him.
I could go on.
Posted Nov 14, 16
Dicerson O>_
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Whether or not Genji counters bastion is dependant on the Genji's skill. Specifically, knowing that the "press E to win" only works on stupid bastions. If he can test the water's properly and then act based on that, he can counter bastion (As genji's mobility allows him to use deflect to approach, then jump all around and dance to avoid the gun and get free shurikens). It is effectively a skill matchup.

Tracer simply needs to farm ults off of bastion's allies (avoiding him entirely, else risking death), then she can press Q for a freebie.

Widowmaker hard counters bastion in turret form, but if Bastion has good aim he can swap to recon and semi-auto his SMG (I do this quite often) to hit widow and force her back and/or kill her. This is basically a gun duel, and is dependent on who is a better shot.

Hanzo is bastion's hardest counter, nigh unbeatable as long as hanzo is even moderately good at shooting. All he has to do is charge arrow behind a corner, expose himself for a quarter to a half second and loose the arrow at bastion. Rinse repeat three times and bastion dies unless he moves. Regardless of whether or not bastion moves to avoid the arrows, you guarantee that he is displaced as he cannot out-corner game hanzo with his SMG or his minigun.

Roadhog can displace bastion and even kill him, but a skilled bastion positions himself properly so that this doesn't happen often. If bastion is in a spot where roadhog can get in pull range before dieing, then he should be in a spot where he can properly escape after getting pulled (a full health bastion cannot be oneshot by hog's gun due to the armor). If he is in neither, then the bastion is bad at his job and he is the one who made the mistake.

I haven't played against or with sombra, but if her hack cancels turret form then she takes hanzos spot as the hardest bastion counter. If that is what happens, then I will stop playing Overwatch when she releases as that basically makes bastion a nonfactor no matter what he does or tries. It renders him, as a hero, completely and utterly useless, worthless, and pointless. I doubt blizzard would do this as if they do they might as well remove bastion from the game, as the effect of adding such an ability would be identical to that. I am going to rage incredibly hard, uninstall overwatch, send a nasty email and probably forum spam until that issue is resolved because such an ability (especially given how many bastions counters there already are. Ana being juuust below hanzo) is totally unacceptable. This stems from the fact that not only does it guarantee the hack's duration as time the enemy team need not fear a bastion firing line, but also the setup time for turret form for anybody to begin a damage duel with bastion (as shooting him while he is transforming into turret basically guarantees his death).

Neither Reaper nor mei can propely counter a skilled bastion, as he can outDPS reaper even if repear gets the first shot, and Mei's wall actually HELPS bastion. Though it blocks his fire for some time, it gives him a chance to repair, reload, and reposition, basically giving Bastion a break from what is usually constant weapons fire.


Ana counters bastion pretty hard. Just the same as widow but she can more rapidly fire, put bastion to sleep if he is outdpsing her, cancel his healing if he tries to escape making it take for-fucking-ever to properly re-enter the fight, and a well-placed nanoboost can destroy bastion's line of fire. Likewise, however, Ana is also the best support for Bastion to have, being able to heal without putting herself in danger, spike heal (say during a reinhardt dash) and enhance his own healing, AND nanoboost his already massive damage. So her release was OK, as an ana pick on his team can effectively negate ana picks on the enemy team. My hope is the same applies to sombra.
What is my life?

I could say alot.

I could write a novel,

or a paragraph.

But instead, I'd much rather write one sentence and leave it at that.


Life is good.
Posted Nov 14, 16
Posts:
11
wrote:
Whether or not Genji counters bastion is dependant on the Genji's skill. Specifically, knowing that the "press E to win" only works on stupid bastions. If he can test the water's properly and then act based on that, he can counter bastion (As genji's mobility allows him to use deflect to approach, then jump all around and dance to avoid the gun and get free shurikens). It is effectively a skill matchup.

Tracer simply needs to farm ults off of bastion's allies (avoiding him entirely, else risking death), then she can press Q for a freebie.

Widowmaker hard counters bastion in turret form, but if Bastion has good aim he can swap to recon and semi-auto his SMG (I do this quite often) to hit widow and force her back and/or kill her. This is basically a gun duel, and is dependent on who is a better shot.

Hanzo is bastion's hardest counter, nigh unbeatable as long as hanzo is even moderately good at shooting. All he has to do is charge arrow behind a corner, expose himself for a quarter to a half second and loose the arrow at bastion. Rinse repeat three times and bastion dies unless he moves. Regardless of whether or not bastion moves to avoid the arrows, you guarantee that he is displaced as he cannot out-corner game hanzo with his SMG or his minigun.

Roadhog can displace bastion and even kill him, but a skilled bastion positions himself properly so that this doesn't happen often. If bastion is in a spot where roadhog can get in pull range before dieing, then he should be in a spot where he can properly escape after getting pulled (a full health bastion cannot be oneshot by hog's gun due to the armor). If he is in neither, then the bastion is bad at his job and he is the one who made the mistake.

I haven't played against or with sombra, but if her hack cancels turret form then she takes hanzos spot as the hardest bastion counter. If that is what happens, then I will stop playing Overwatch when she releases as that basically makes bastion a nonfactor no matter what he does or tries. It renders him, as a hero, completely and utterly useless, worthless, and pointless. I doubt blizzard would do this as if they do they might as well remove bastion from the game, as the effect of adding such an ability would be identical to that. I am going to rage incredibly hard, uninstall overwatch, send a nasty email and probably forum spam until that issue is resolved because such an ability (especially given how many bastions counters there already are. Ana being juuust below hanzo) is totally unacceptable. This stems from the fact that not only does it guarantee the hack's duration as time the enemy team need not fear a bastion firing line, but also the setup time for turret form for anybody to begin a damage duel with bastion (as shooting him while he is transforming into turret basically guarantees his death).

Neither Reaper nor mei can propely counter a skilled bastion, as he can outDPS reaper even if repear gets the first shot, and Mei's wall actually HELPS bastion. Though it blocks his fire for some time, it gives him a chance to repair, reload, and reposition, basically giving Bastion a break from what is usually constant weapons fire.


Ana counters bastion pretty hard. Just the same as widow but she can more rapidly fire, put bastion to sleep if he is outdpsing her, cancel his healing if he tries to escape making it take for-fucking-ever to properly re-enter the fight, and a well-placed nanoboost can destroy bastion's line of fire. Likewise, however, Ana is also the best support for Bastion to have, being able to heal without putting herself in danger, spike heal (say during a reinhardt dash) and enhance his own healing, AND nanoboost his already massive damage. So her release was OK, as an ana pick on his team can effectively negate ana picks on the enemy team. My hope is the same applies to sombra.

Sombra has only one issue with countering bastion: Damage. Sombra can hack bastion to pull him out of turret, but she is out dps'd by a hanzo who hits only 25% of his shots. Meaning bastion in recon form can kill Sombra easily, not to mention how it takes enough time to hack for bastion to kill her twice(He literally outputs enough damage to deal 400 hp). And I was referring to her using her ult as I generally throw it on the bastion from behind.
Posted Nov 15, 16 · Last edited Nov 15, 16 by ajdude12
Dicerson O>_
Posts:
2,864
I am not all too familiar with sombras kit, I only remember Unreal Tournament style teleporter, SMG, hack. Not even which is a basic and what her ult is or anything like that.

If its her ultimate that hacks, then its acceptable (Especially if she is as squishy and the ability as slow as you say). Still a solid counter (As though bastion in recon my be able to kill her if shes alone, the same is pretty much true of all his counters. When in a 1v1 scenario only a good hanzo, widowmaker, or reinhardt can really beat a good bastion) cuz if he is forced into recon in front of 1 or 2 other people, then he is probably fucked.
What is my life?

I could say alot.

I could write a novel,

or a paragraph.

But instead, I'd much rather write one sentence and leave it at that.


Life is good.
Posted Nov 15, 16
Posts:
737
Sombra's secondry fire is a hack it hacks med kits so they come back faster and also stops the other team using them, and then she disables peoples moves, which actually pulls bastion out of turret mode.
VCO's Resident Transgirl!!
Posted Nov 16, 16 · OP
Dicerson O>_
Posts:
2,864
I looked up the details of the ability and it is as I feared.

With 75% of roadhogs hook range (Not to mention she can also go invis), she is the hardest bastion counter to date. She could eaasily invis/teleport behind bastion, unload a full magazine of her SMG into his back (Like a tracer flank) then hack bastion and basically guarantee the kill. Bastion will, conversely, have precisely 1 or 2 seconds to respond before dieing horribly. Even then, unless he manages to almost insta-gib her with a 180 flick of his minigun, he is still probably dead, even if he undeploys and immediately begins dodging.

This, of course, assumes she is alone. If she, for example, foregoes shooting to instead hack him while he is shooting at, say, literally anyone else. She can still guarantee the skill by simply forcing him into his weaker state in front of 1 or 2 other enemies.



Currently (Pre-Sombra), even the hardest of bastion's counters (Hanzo and skilled tracers) could be dealt with at least moderately (Bastion would have to undeploy more often and make good use of jump dodging and his SMG).

However, unless Blizzard changes sombra in some way to lessen this impact, Sombra will basically negate bastion in his entirety regardless of how skilled the sombra is. A neanderthal could invis behind him, teleport behind, or hell even walk up to him with an equally neanderthalic reinhardt on her team and hack him, rendering him completely unable to deal with the multitude of enemies that is an enemy team. With nothing but 6 seconds (Or, if I am reading the wiki correctly, 10 seconds for "turrets" which bastion technically is while in turret form) of SMG and jumping (not even self-healing). Combine this with a 12 second cooldown and Bastion becomes basically unable to perform his sole duty as a hero (provide a high damage "killzone" the enemy has to avoid and/or push through with tanks). Seeing as the sole purpose and use of the character is to provide this killzone (with the SMG only being there so he is not totally defenseless when not performing this task) Sombra effectively, and without any effort whatsoever of the player, negates Bastion in his entirety.



As soon as Sombra releases, Blizzard will have given Bastion, the hero who is literally at the exact bottom of damned near every single Overwatch Tier list in existence, considered the absolute worst hero second ONLY to symmetra, the most hard-hitting nerf they have ever given any hero in that game.

Bastion will be unplayable, unusable. Even if sombra herself is weak and never picked, she will still be useful as the "EZ Anti-bastion". They have bastion? Pick sombra and auto-win with literally 0 effort (Invisibility, teleport, and a pretty damn long range hack at 15 meters, 75% of roadhogs hook). Giving him no option but to literally kill himself and pick a different hero.



As such, as soon as sombra releases, I will play until I face her in game, see if Blizzard did make any changes to lessen this inevitable impact, and then promptly quit, uninstall overwatch, and never play any of blizzard's games ever again excepting only when sombra is properly deleted/reworked into a harmless MLP ripoff.
What is my life?

I could say alot.

I could write a novel,

or a paragraph.

But instead, I'd much rather write one sentence and leave it at that.


Life is good.
Posted Nov 16, 16
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